| Topic Name: |
Up or Out policy |
| Message Name: |
To answer the first question... |
| Date Posted: |
03/04/2006 |
| In Reply To: |
I've heard that McKinsey have a very demanding up or out policy and that only 1/5 to 1/6 make partner at the firm. After investment of time and money to new associates in developing them, it doesn't make sense to let him/her go for a fresh no-nothing recruit. Is up or out policy at the firm an old system or some thing recent based on Welch's rank'em and yank'em?
Also anyone care to comment on GE's brand compared to McKinsey in post "out" opportunity? There is an article in this week's businessweek on McK and GE alumni and their clout/success in starting outsourcing firms in the US and India. I didn't realize that GE had such a high prestige.
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| Message: |
I'll avoid the GE-McKinsey thing and just answer the first of the two boldpin questions. First, you've got two things mixed up -- there's an "up or out" policy and there's counseling people out. They are not the same, honestly. People who don't "make it" as consultants wind up getting counseled out, and you're right, except in very rare cases it doesn't happen in the first year (often not for the first 18-24 months unless it's pretty obvious that the person can't function in their associate role). I can only speak for North America (and pretty much for the east coast), but in the time I've been here it seems like 5-10% of each entering class winds up in this situation. Which makes sense, in terms of low performers.
Up or out, which I think has been Firm policy for decades, involves long-term evaluation when someone is ready for the next step up the ladder -- associate to engagement manager, then to partner (AP is more of a limbo period to broaden the partner evaluation, IMHO). So, you're a great associate, cranking out analyses and charts, doing everything that could be asked of you, contributing to each team you're on. But you can't show the qualities people look for to transition to EM. Managing people, timelines, projects, client expectations, partners, problem solving. There's training to help you get those skills, but it's not taking. You've had long discussions with your development group leader about how to get over this hurdle, but it's not working. 6 or 12 months have gone by, and you're still performing like a great 1st or 2nd yr associate, but you've been here 2.5 or 3 years. So, rather than keep at it, stagnant, the up or out policy kicks in, and you wind up leaving. The general concept, as someone else expressed, is that you can't be doing the same thing 5 years in as you were doing in year one.
Whenever I interview and do other recruiting stuff, people always use the phrase "up or out" but mean something between CTL and true up/out. Hopefully this helps clarify. On the GE topic, I think I've got a really nice 60w bulb from them that gives off pleasing light, but that's all the insight I have.
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