| Topic Name: |
SEO MC - Advice? |
| Message Name: |
Long counter to your propaganda |
| Date Posted: |
02/03/2002 |
| In Reply To: |
Wow, I just wandered into this board and saw the this thread . . .apparently, old, but perhaps some folks are still reading it . . . and it seems like some innaccurate perceptions about SEO are being posted.
[congrats to V12 for landing an interview, by the way]
First, to disclose my bias: I am an SEO alum, and interned with the Mng. Consulting (MC) program. I still work at the same firm for which I interned (will remain nameless).
I don't think it's possible to change someone's mind or idealogy through one posting--so I won't waste the space cheerleading SEO (which I think is a very powerful organization with an important mission). So to those who think SEO interns "cheat" their way in, or somehow are less capable for the job, I challenge you to back up that statement with evidence. I claim the contrary is true: SEO interns are among the most capable, and most successful students in NY (and now in San Fran and London) each summer. Over 90% receive an offer at the end of the summer (this stat is for all the programs--banking, law, asset management, etc). I think this speaks loudly. In addition, firms continue to support SEO and hire their interns, even in the down economy (granted, the MC program shrank last summer). The value proposition is strong, and the elite corporations are buying it. And how do I know this? Like many SEO alum, I am still involved with the program (although I DON'T work for SEO, nor do I recruit for it).
This email is more than just a chest-beating retort. To those who are just learning about SEO, or considering it for next year, there is still time to apply. If you have any questions, feel free to priv mail me at Lisa_Matsboy@hotmail.com I'm happy to give interview advice--I've helped with mock case interviews for both SEO and my firm.
LM's B |
| Message: |
As someone who graduated 5 years ago and worked in a BB investment bank, and am now a 2nd year MBA at a top 3 b-school, let me give some of my thoughts.
First, I am an Asian-American, and I went to a top Ivy league undergrad. My GPA was decent (3.6), but not stellar.
I applied twice to SEO for IB in both sophomore year and junior year. Rejected both times. Both times, I spent my own money to fly to new york for a 10-15 minute interview. Both times, I was asked extremely silly questions, like "Do you know macros?" and "Tell us about your community service". I actually had a prety strong community service background at the time (head of a volunteer organization).
While I wasn't happy about not getting into SEO--at the time, it seemed like the end all be all to securing an ibanking analyst job--I did understand that it was very competitive.
But, like others here on the board have noticed, many (not all) of the people who get into SEO have very low GPAs and have NOT done any community service work. I can't speak for the entire SEO program, but of the people who got in from my school, many observers were surprised, as the admitees were not the most qualified, did not have high GPAs, knew next to nothing about finance, and had very little community service. In fact, I find it very surprising, that someone who applied for the MC program, but isn't admitted, will be offered a position in the IB program. Is SEO basically saying that someone who doesn't even have an interest in IB should be given the spot over someone who really wants to to IB?
The interesting part of my story takes place after I got a job in a top 3 bulge bracket IB, working in the M&A group. Between my 1st and 2nd year, 2 SEO interns were assigned to my group. Anyway, I worked with both summer interns on deals. The male was pretty decent, but the girl was absolutely awful in every way. She spoke extremely poor english (saying things like "Can I axe ya a kestion?"). I am totally not trying to be racist, and I apologize of anyone is offended. But ibanking is a client presentation driven business, and everyone, whether you chinese, black or white, has to have good language and communication skills.
Then there were her quant skills--she was totally uncomfortable with financial analysis and quantitative matters. And once, when an associate criticized her (but didn't yell), she had a breakdown and started crying in front of the entire group.
For her review, I wrote my feedback completely honestly, and said that the girl should not be given an offer, and would do very poorly in a full time job.
Let me preface that last comment with an insight into the SEO internship program. SEO interns do complete crap work--they don't learn anything substantial about ibanking. They basically do all of the crap work that analysts normally do, but don't get to see any of the interesting parts. So, while it may be a great name on one's resume, it really means very, very little. And SEO interns have no real conception of what ibanking is about or even what being an ibanking analyst is really all about--I mean, how much can you expect them to get out of 10-12 weeks in the summer? As I think about this, SEO isn't unique in this aspect--summer internships in general are not realistic pictures of the real working environment. But I think that SEO's portrayal of their internship as this magical experience where the interns work on billion dollar deals and hobnob w/ CEOs and CFOs is really bullshit. Think about it--if a full-time IB analyst is already doing crap work, what do you think the intern working for the analyst is going to be doing???
Anyway, what happened? The girl was given an offer to come back as a full time ibanking analyst.
I may sound like an SEO basher who is just resentful because he didn't get chosen. But because I was able to do extremely well without the program, I don't harbor any grudges against SEO.
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