| Topic Name: |
Ivy vs. Non |
| Message Name: |
oww |
| Date Posted: |
02/12/2001 |
| In Reply To: |
OK you wrote a book I suppose that deserves a reply.
I partially agree with your somewhat marxist apologetic argument that success at the elite, means...for the most part... acting like and being raised in the elite.
In fact I had the same viewpoint when I was an undergrad at Dartmouth, LL Bean capital of the world, as I believe you put it.
But that is not the only explaining variable. Since leaving Dartmouth and entering the real world, I realized people are, on absolute terms, much smarter at Dartmouth than anywhere else I go, not just a wee bit more clever but a different league all together. I am talking NFL vs. XFL (good analogy actually). Even the prep school bone heads at Dartmouth are higher than the mean when I enter the professional world.
Intellect is not a socially constructed entity, although one can argue standards to measure the ability to articulate are cultural... to some degree...but not completely.
But just because ivy league kids are smarter does not mean that top end state school kids are not just as smart. And just because some state school kids are sometimes more hungry, does not mean there are a few ivy leaguers who are just as hungry. Bill Gates I would call hungry, for example, if he counts.
Jeez, all this flaming. There are no absolutes. Fun though... |
| Message: |
to go to a good school you need to study hard in high school. to get a high gpa in college you need to study hard.
so does that mean that students that turned their assignments on time because their parents told them to are smarter?
sure there is the select few that can study for small amounts of time and remember it but they are a rarity. i am still trying to figure out what intelligence is. for example my former roommate had a 3.7 GPA which is much higher than mine but was a complete idiot when it came to life. not the kind of guy that should go into consulting.
What about all those Junior College students that transfer into top schools like UCLA and UC Berkeley?
Being smart, I believe is being quick and analyzing material by quickly referencing other things that you have learned in life to read in between the lines of a situation. I guess that is partially dependent on how much you know since a large database of facts will let you extract them when referencing, with greater ease. You dont learn quickness in school though. Though some may argue that SATs are a good indication, how can we explain that by some practice and learning stupid tricks one can improve his score by 150 pionts?
Have you ever had those friends in highschool that got crappy grades because they didnt try but were very quick witted? Or what about the friend that was horrible at math but could analyze peoples psychology and the problems of society...things that most sociology graduate students wouldnt think of? I have.
Success doesnt even have that much to do with being smart. Geniusese are often ostracized from society because their creativity manifests itself in wasy which set them apart from sociey socially. Einstein got bad grades when he was younger.
There are some people that have a photographic memory. Everything they see, they memorize. Obviously they would lead the curve in most classes. Does that make them smarter than others?
Success has to do with hardwork, connections and being lucky. 2 of the 3 is all you need.
Getting into a top school is really not that hard. In my case, had I studied as hard as I did in college when I was in highschool, I dont see why I wouldnt have had a good chance to go to H/Y/P/S so looking at other friends that went to lesser schools because they cared less about stupid things such as US history in highschool, can I say that they arent as smart?
My Brain hurts.
-Mr. Bruin
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