| Topic Name: |
Misconception, the amount of A- - you kiss, and your self worth |
| Message Name: |
I figured out why all these lawyers are miserable |
| Date Posted: |
04/24/2002 |
| In Reply To: |
The average indebtedness for an Ivy law student is only about 75K. This number doesn't seem to be meaningfully different from the debt amount incurred at any private law school. Is your point that Ivy league schools are overpriced, or that law school in general is?
As far as proving yourself, well that doesn't really seem to have an end in this line of work. I agree, sometimes it is very intimidating. Even after you get into a "good school" there's finishing your first year top 10, getting on to the review, try to get published, then a clerkship, or a summer spot with the "right" firm, the bar, billing hours, partnership track, then you're dead.
I'm still a little young to be really bitter about it and I don's think "ass kissing" really comes into play until you're out of school. But, sometimes I look at all the things I "have" to do and don't even realize that I'm just ticking years off, and living so far in the future. Don't go to law school until you have an idea of what lawyers do each day, and unless you think you'll like the work on a daily basis.
I'm not saying it's too hard or trying to discourage people, but it revolves entirely around competition every day inside and outside your firm, and if you add 75K to your debt you'll have to practice law to pay it off. A pox on the idea that a JD opens all sorts of doors. |
| Message: |
i appreciate your insight:
here is my point.
The average first tier school tuition is around 25k per year. This does not take into account living costs in cities like DC, NY, Boston or chicago which all have relatively higher living costs then say a smaller midwestern city. Thus, it seems that you're looking at roughly 30k a year (conservatively) which amounts to at least 90k in total law school debt, not to mention whatever undergrad debt you do have. Moreover, when you are in law school, your opportunity costs include not being able to work say a 40k job if you have a BS degree. furthermore, all your school loan payments are not tax deductable when you enter the upper tax brackets. the amount of loss you incur seems redundant in every financial aspect if you analyze the whole picture. My point is, you need to use your head when making such a life and wealth altering decision. that's what i am trying to do now.
As far as proving yourself: when you say intimidating, i can imagine that it is. however, what i meant was that it is also personally insulting in general. When you are building your reputation in the legal field, you obviously must prove your talent, but that's only because you are subjecting yourself to getting paid by others. I am not saying it is unnecessary to have proven your abilities in the context of employment by others. but you are absolutely right, it seems that law school and beyond becomes an escalating commitment. the question is when trying to decide about law is also whether or not you want to subject yourself to working for a firm/other people all your life: until of course you have the ability and finances to begin your own business, which will also be delayed by all the debt you incurred.
I am bitter about suffering in my youth for the future. i think about it every day. I am a firm believer in suffering and working hard now for what you want to achieve in the future. But, if you are going to use up your youth, it should be for your benefit, it should be for maximum benefit. Why? because your youth is such a special part of your life. using your 20s going to law school, not working, and incurring all that debt etc. does not benefit you. sure you become a lawyer, but it only additionally brings you a higher amount of future realized income that will be taxed by the govt etc. the cost/benefit analysis tells me that the costs are too high. there has to be a way around this scenerio while still achieving your academic and career goals.
Can i ask if you are currently an attourney? i can imagine how competition adds an additional stress factor in a firm environment. I got a job at a firm this summer and am looking forward to trying to understand its 'political' situtation and how that effects everyone in the firm. that's important as well.
Lately i've had a chance to speak to some lawyers, particularly litigators, and this one guy told me that all the lawyers he knows are miserable. He flat out told me not to be a lawyer. you can imagine that this was extremely disconcerting. (and yes, i know people are annoying: one guy tells you it's great, the next woman tells you it sucks... you have to figure it out) buti think i realize now why some of these lawyers are bitter. it's the costs in gettting there, the stress etc. and some ofthese ivy people become even more bitter when they realize they are competing with some 3rd tier graduates who were at the tops of their classes and somehow made it to the firm: without giving up as much.
Maybe this has something to do with that.
My situation is that i know exactly and specifically what type of law i want to practice, but i do not know what the best way is to get there.
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