| Topic Name: |
Stanford University |
| Message Name: |
Boy, are you an idio |
| Date Posted: |
01/28/2000 |
| In Reply To: |
What is so strong about an undergraduate education where for two years one has to endure classes that have more than a thousand
people? That is akin to just learning from a book by yourself. It certainly does not sound like a top education. In regards to your comment about Berkeley having tougher competition for grades than the Ivies, friend, I think you need to have your head examined. There is no
statistical information that could remotely support that statement. All you have to do is compare the freshman class numbers at the Ivies and Berkeley. Berkeley average SAT is in the low 1300's. Penn, the least competitive Ivy has an average in the low 1400's. Harvard's average is around 1500.
You still think Berkeley is more competitive?
As for the number of PHD's awarded, that is clearly a misleading statistic. Berkeley is 5
times the size of most Ivies. However, if you bothered to check the PROPORTION of people from these schools who go on to get PhD's, then I think you would get a much more realistic picture of what is happening. It is
unfortunate that a school like Stanford admitted an idiot like yourself, who obviously has no idea how to conduct basic research. If you are one of the "strong" who "survived" Berkeley, then I do not think I need to write any more anyway.
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| Message: |
Boy, are you an idiot. If you're writing from an Ivy League school, then my opinion of that exalted consortium of elite schools has suddenly diminished. I'm a Stanford PhD student who got his undergrad degree from Berkeley, like the individual you took such exceptional effort to berate. The aspect of your response I found most offensive was your willingness to take positions on issues about which you don't have A CLUE. I guess that kind of BS-logic flies in the Ivy League--NOT at Cal. Where did you hear that for two years students take classes with more than a thousand people? My largest class was about 500-600, freshman chem my first semester. As far as I know, this level of class size is entirely common at Harvard. Your assertion that Cal is 5 times as large as most Ivies (Harvard and Cornell notably excepted) is fair enough--but that should explain the lower average SAT scores. It's a public school, for God's sake--it has a public mission to fulfill, which I think is very admirable. And if you think the SAT is a good and fair measure of intellectual ability, and a good predictor of future success, you and I clearly don't agree on the fundamentals.
I still do think Berkeley is more competitive than the Ivies. Having known people who've gone to Ivy League schools and having come to Stanford--both of which are known for their rampant grade inflation--I think Berkeley does provide the more rigorous education. MIT and Caltech, University of Chicago and Swarthmore are examples of schools that I also consider rigorous.
I concur that the proportion of students getting PhDs is the salient statistic. At Berkeley, this proportion is relatively high--around 10%, higher than Stanford for example. Everyone I know who was near or at the top of their class (VERY smart people) went on to get PhDs. This is due to the campus' strong academic climate--which is reflected brilliantly in the latest NRC rankings.
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